byslantedlight: (Doyle Lean (snarkyllama))
[personal profile] byslantedlight
Just a quickie, and not the post I've been trying to make for the last few days (with added photos), but because there is probably going to be yet another round of teeth-gnashing about it... Lj's new terms of service, of course.

I'm not entirely happy with the new terms of service, but only because I can't actually read the original version of them. To put that in context, however, I wasn't entirely happy with the old terms of service (the US-based ones) where I was also supposed to sign all my rights to a governmental jurisdiction that I wasn't allowed to have any say in, and that often legislated against things (ironically freedoms) that I believed in.

There was an element of protection via EU laws, some of which officially superceded some of the US laws I was less comfortable with, as a member of the EU. That is also shortly going to be taken away from me (and any other UK lj-ers).

On top of that, of course, the recent change in the US government has been for the worse, regarding people's freedoms and rights, and I feel less comfortable with it now than I did previously.

So - when it comes down to it, I don't feel any worse off, I've signed the agreement and will still be here. I'm hoping that other people will be too, but sadly I suspect not. And now I have to dash to work, but I hope I see you around!

Date: 05/04/2017 07:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firlefanzine.livejournal.com
Yeah...!

There is this German proverb 'Den Teufel mit Beelzebub austreiben'. It means 'To replace one evil with another'...
We can just hope!

I've also signed the agreement.

Date: 05/04/2017 12:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
Yeah, sadly I see little difference in evil between them. The US hasn't openly come out against LGBT as Russia has, but unless someone puts a stop to him somehow I think its only a matter of time. And there seems to be no end to the other current evils either. I lost most of my remaining faith when the Guantanamo Bay gulag opened - and was never closed down again...

Date: 05/04/2017 07:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unbelievable2.livejournal.com
Am not stressin'. I think they have bigger fish to fry and as long as we are all individually backed up and/or mirrored on other platforms, we should be okay.

Date: 05/04/2017 05:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
Yeah, I don't think there's much point stressing. I'm not mad keen on giving repressive regimes my money, but that counts for the US as much as Russia, sadly, so no change there...

Date: 05/04/2017 07:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com
I just hope as many individuals and comms as possible are backed up over at DW, in case (or perhaps that should be "for when" rather than if ...?) LJ is pressured to delete slash. My memory is rubbish as usual - are you over at DW too?

Date: 05/04/2017 12:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fiorenza-a.livejournal.com

Currently the agreement is only saying adult content (for over eighteens) - might be subject to unilateral takedown if it's not marked as eighteen.

My journal's always been marked 'adult content' because I'm too lazy to police each post and comment. It might be an idea to do that, in case they mean you'll be held accountable for the comments.

Gen post - slash/het comment.

And to post all posts as 'adult', but I do wonder of the insistence on this is precisely because they want to turn a blind eye to slash. Sex equals revenue.

I think we're more likely to be driven off Lj by aggressive spamming than the thought police.

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Date: 05/04/2017 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
I must admit, I'm always rather disconcerted to come into my lj and find that someone's replied to comments before me, even though I really like it when people chat about things here! It tangles my brain a bit when they start without me though! So hi - it's actually me this time!

I'm backed-up at DW, but I'm not entirely sure I'd use it if it came to that. I dunno - perhaps I would, because it's become a habit, but Pros is so quiet now anyway, and although I post alot of personal stuff too, it does rather feel like wittering away for no reason, since most people don't make their own posts! I miss the way that lj was all about communication, before everyone ran off screaming "it's a monster!" at various times...

Will lj be pressure to delete m/m slash journals? I dunno... Certainly the Russian ToS doesn't hint at anything like that - Lj has had the option to label your stuff "adult" for years, that's not a Russian change. Whether there's anything in the Russian version of the ToS that we can't read/understand that would make a difference... But it would surely be simple enough for the Russian owners to avoid the problem entirely by just ending the US-based service, and they don't seem to be doing that, so... who knows.

Date: 05/04/2017 09:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] loxleyprince.livejournal.com
I've signed the agreement too. I like LJ too much to be put off by adverts sent to my email addy. I'll beef up my Spam rules if they become a thing.

Date: 05/04/2017 11:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freetraveller15.livejournal.com
Hello. Have you received adverts related to your LJ activity? I don't think I have received spam yet that might be related to me having an LJ account...

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Date: 05/04/2017 06:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
Spam hasn't been a thing so far, and I don't see why that should change. What the ToS did talk about was advertisements - that "everyone" would see advertisements. Presumably this means no more free advert-free accounts, but I won't be happy if there's advertising on paid accounts, because that's exactly why I got one...

I'm not sure where this talk about adverts being sent to email addresses has come from though - what do our email addresses have to do with the price of fish, when we're talking about lj?!

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Date: 05/04/2017 10:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragongirl3745.livejournal.com
I'm staying, at least for a while. But then, I hardly post anything to my LJ that is worth catching the government's attention, Russian or US. And isn't it sad that I wrote that? I'm involved in two communities that give me a lot of entertainment. As far as I know, neither one is mirrored at DW. But if the communities do go to DW, I'll probably follow; I'm not at all comfortable with LJ anymore. So, I'm still going to be around; even though I don't comment hardly, I do love seeing the guys on my f-list.

Date: 05/04/2017 12:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fiorenza-a.livejournal.com

Well warner music have just taken down my only fanvid over an, admittedly classic, song that's nearly 50 years old.

They're apparently having another spat with YouTube - I'm collateral - and now on Vimeo!

(I've never been banned worldwide before - it's quite exciting :0))
Edited Date: 05/04/2017 12:57 pm (UTC)

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Date: 05/04/2017 06:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
Glad to hear you'll still be around! *g* I wouldn't have thought that I'd post anything that would catch a government's attention either, but then I suppose automated filters would make it easier for them to pick up m/m journals if they did decide to take generic action against them, so I dunno... If they have the support of the US government in general, then I could see it going that way, sadly.

Did you mean Pros comms on lj? I'm guessing not, but...?

As far as posting to lj goes, I suppose the most discouraging thing for me is that relatively few other people post, so although I post and get to read the comments, I don't really get to read many lj posts myself any more. I miss the days when we all inspired each other on lj...

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Date: 05/04/2017 10:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com
I'll still be here. Frankly there isn't much difference between US and Russian laws now. Trump has been busy revoking every single thing Obama did, like a strange kind of revenge driven by jealousy.

Date: 05/04/2017 11:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gilda-elise.livejournal.com
Exactly. With states passing laws against protesting, you know things are getting bad. Anyway, I'm not going anywhere, either.

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Date: 05/04/2017 11:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freetraveller15.livejournal.com
As I said in a comment to another LJ friend, I had to sign that agreement too, none too happy about it. Well, I haven't been happy with LJ ever since it was bought by a Russian company all those years ago... And yes, Russia's record on LGBTQ right is what it is. But Trump's America doesn't inspire much hope either, in terms of human rights.
Surely the company owning LJ must be aware that a good amount of personal journals and comms have LGBTQ content, revolve around slash fanfic and relevant discussion... ?
I don't have an account at DW yet, but maybe now it's time I created one.
I don't know how mirroring works between LJ and DW, or whether cross-posting is the same thing. It's not just about replicating a post from LJ to DW (or viceversa), though. Is there also a way to 'copy' the comments too? If LJ goes, I'd be sorry to see both posts and comments go, to be honest.
I wouldn't worry too much about fanfics, though. A fanfic writer may just post to an external archive like AO3, and just post the link on their LJ, if they feel unsafe having their fic up on LJ only. It is more the journal aspect, and the community discussion aspect, that I think I'd miss from a platform like LJ (AO3 isn't built for that).
[livejournal.com profile] loxleyprince above mentions spam emails. I haven't received spam yet that might be related to me having an LJ account, I don't think (??)

Date: 05/04/2017 01:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fiorenza-a.livejournal.com

So far they seem to be ramping up the advertising for free accounts - one of the perks you pay for with a paid account is no adverts. I'm not sure they'll want to drive paying users off the platform.

As I've said above, I suspect their marked emphasis on adult content might be their 'get out of jail free' card. If it's adult and foreign, they may not choose to enquire too closely.

It's the LGBTetc. folk using Lj as a platform in Russia who are already feeling a chill wind.
Edited Date: 05/04/2017 01:04 pm (UTC)

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Date: 05/04/2017 06:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
Sadly I don't see much difference between Lj-run-by-Russia and Lj-run-by-the-US, and even more so now...

Surely the company owning LJ must be aware...
I would have thought it would be easier for them simply to close down the US-based accounts, to be honest - why go through the hassle of suspending accounts etc. when there just aren't many left compared to Russian users? So I'd guess that unless we're actively "agitating" for LGBT rights, they won't bother looking into it - but who knows...

I'm never sure why people talk about "mirroring" between Lj and DW, because you can't "mirror" an Lj account. You can create a DW account and then "import" the entries and comments etc. in your own Lj - but that's all that happens. It doesn't automatically update whenever you make an Lj post, so you have to do it periodically if you want it as a "back-up". And it won't be a proper back-up anyway, because DW doesn't have the same capabilities (despite being based on Lj's original code etc.) So people then stop using Lj properly, and post from DW instead, which allows you to "cross-post" to Lj. But then you have comments in two different places... (or some people disable comments to Lj to force you to go to DW to comment, but I can't be bothered with that I'm afraid...!)

But yeah, the comments go too, which is something. Not the icons though, unless you pay the same amount for a DW account.

I'd hope that fanfic writers have copies of their fanfic on their own computer, and can post to as many forums as they want from that! That said, I've occasionally written something straight to Lj, and when I've looked for it years later not been able to find it on my own computer, so it doesn't always work out!

A03 is ruled by US law though - and if Trump decides to clamp down on "promoting" LGBT via the internet, for instance, then it could also find itself deleted as a whole site (like the UK government clamped down in the 1980s on "promoting" it in schools, which translated to not being allowed to mention it for fear someone thought you were being positive about it and thus "encouraging" or "promoting" it - thankfully "Section 28" was eventually abolished, but not for a long time...)

I've no idea where the idea of "spam emails" has come from - the new ToS simply said that all Lj users would see advertising now (I presume that basically means an end to advert-free free lj accounts, which lots of people had - and I presume it doesn't change non-advertising in paid (now "professional") accounts, though I guess we'll have to wait and see... But spam emails?

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Date: 05/04/2017 01:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sc-fossil.livejournal.com
In the end, they want to make money and I doubt I'll be in the way for that. If they delete my LJ, they delete it. Until then, I'm here. I'm not running off for anybody. Not a DW fan anyway so...

Date: 05/04/2017 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
Yeah, I'm not mad on DW either - I've made one as a "back up", but it won't be my Lj. I suppose I might end up posting there, if Lj was ever deleted, just through habit, but.. meh...

But yeay that there will still be some of us around!

Date: 05/04/2017 02:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] macklingirl.livejournal.com
I'm staying. I don't have a DW account, so I'll stay here until they put LJ down. I hope that will take a long time.

Date: 05/04/2017 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
Yeah, I hope so too... I did back-up my Lj over at DW, but you have to keep doing it, and it's not really my Lj, so...

Date: 05/04/2017 08:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fiorenza-a.livejournal.com

Well they seem to be implying that this is part of reinvigorating Lj - so I'm not so sure this is a herald of demise - just a herald of a more overtly European Lj.

Date: 05/04/2017 10:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] siskiou.livejournal.com
Strangely, I could get into my LJ without ever seeing the TOS or having to sign it on my laptop, but not on the phone app.

I signed it, and hope, a few people will hang on. I'd definitely miss your posts about Pros and your life and hope there will be other ways to stay in contact, if LJ ever completely disintegrates.
Edited Date: 06/04/2017 04:37 pm (UTC)

Date: 06/04/2017 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
Did you maybe go into lj on your phone app first, and then it accepted the agreement for your account in general, I wonder? But then I did wonder about timing, because the whole thing was 4th April, but of course west coast US is 7-9 hours behind, so did your agreements not kick in for that long after everyone else's, or was it the 3rd for you when it did, or...?

I hope there will be ways to stay in touch too - which is a strange hope really, because people managed to stay in touch before there was the internet! *g* But now it made us new friends in the first place, and then began shunting us around in different ways to the ways we moved pre-internet... (if any of that makes sense!) I suppose it'll depend on the person - there's all this talk about moving to Dreamwidth, and I've got a back-up account there too, but I'm not sure I'd really do it. Things have changed in so many other ways, not related to lj itself at all... Or maybe it's such a habit that I'd not be able to stay away... I dunno! I hear that a bunch of people use Facebook, but that's not really a safe place for me to post about fandom etc. (and not nearly as nice a forum as Lj, so I'm gonna hope that things don't change... though of course they already have, because more people are going "eeek, the Russians are coming!" and saying they're leaving Lj, including the Picfor1000 challenge that I've liked doing (or signing up for, this year, if not actually doing before the deadline...)

/rambling. I need to get to bed! *g*

Date: 06/04/2017 03:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dawnebeth.livejournal.com
I'm still here, too!

Date: 06/04/2017 09:02 pm (UTC)

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