Torchwood - just what MS ordered?
Saturday, 11 July 2009 08:46 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
byslantedlightI've been thinking about Torchwood today - don't you love it when a show stays with you, rather than vanishing into fairy-floss fluff? Anyway... general ramblings and thinkings-out-loud ahead... and spoilers of course, under the cut...
It was a show to make you think, wasn't it, and no matter how much I hated what happened with Ianto, and how sad I thought it all was, and how horrid and uncomfortable parts of it made me feel - it was bloody good, and I think RTD is one of the bravest writers/producers etc for telly in the UK today. (And I really hope he's not moving to the US to make a Torchwood there, cos that would ruin it, even if it was done by him... *sighs sadly and hopes desperately that it's all rumour*) I do wonder if MS might have watched, and if he would have approved, because it was tv with the think-y bits left in, just like Apparitions was (also shouted at by many people, esp. "fandom"-people... *g*)
Anyway - I've been as intrigued by people's reactions as by anything else, which have really surprised me. There's been a definite what's he doing to us? feel to alot of reactions I've seen, and how dare he and does he think he can get away with upsetting the fans and all - and lots of foot stomping and people saying they'll never watch TW again, etc, etc. Which is kind of moot if there really isn't going to be another series, but I can totally see that there could be - and that it could even feature Ianto, considering the various dimension-ly goings on of the DW and TW universes... *g*
But that aside, it made me wonder about the exact nature of "fandom" and fanfic and whether it makes us expect certain things - sort of an outgrowth of the whole debate over warnings, and labels etc (and which came first, the labels or the wanting... *g*) But - it seemed, in the warnings discussions that I read, that people in fandom are often (definitely not wholly, and I'm one of the not-wholly *g*) reading fanfic as kind of comfort-reading. They're actually expecting it to make them feel good, perhaps when things aren't going well elsewhere, perhaps just in general, and that's why alot of people want warnings for things that aren't going to make them feel good (without getting into the whole different levels of that, from "triggers" to makes-me-sad etc).
And it occurs to me to wonder if TW in particular has sort of breached the fourth wall and is almost a victim of that - because I know my flist and alot of the lists/sites etc that I've surfed have been full of people complaining about what RTD did - as if he did something to them. It took me a while to figure out why I was also feeling sad about Ianto and Jack and the government and the whole thing, as they were, but not angry at RTD about it all - I'm actually well impressed with him, and think he's been very brave, and that there was something rather poetic about the whole thing (from start of TW1 to end of TW3). And I wonder if it's because I don't think of myself as a "fan" of TW (I suspect I have a very odd view of myself as a "fan", and it's very much centred only around Pros!), so I was just there for the story. And I certainly wasn't expecting that because TW has interacted with fans/fandom, that the interaction was... symbiotic? in any way - I thought it was about him telling a story that he wanted to tell, not necessarily one that "fans" wanted to watch. Cos isn't that what stories are? There for the telling, not necessarily for the hearing?
I loved the story. I loved Ianto's story, and Jack's, and both of them together. I like Andy's story, I don't mind Gwen's as long as it's connected to Rhys, and I could eventually even muster up interest for Tosh and even Owen. I loved the story about the way the world coped with what appeared to be a huge influx of aliens, without ever admitting to it; I loved the centre for aliens not always being London or Roswell or anywhere, but Cardiff; and I was fascinated by the stories of the way humanity in the series responded to everything. TW's always been grey about that - there've always been villains who didn't seem like villains at first, or who were just people who'd been caught up in something bigger than their normal lives, and I suppose I just seen CoE as a sort of extension of that. Frobisher, a good civil servant - but by whose terms? Was that a Prime Minister that we'd voted in? And all those people at the COBRA meeting, how did they get to be there? Cos they all connect to us at some level, so we're not blameless in anything that they did - and that can make people very uncomfortable. What have you stood up for, today?
And the whole SATs/failing schools thing was brilliantly done - go RTD for saying that out loud to a massive prime time audience. Cos we know that's what a lot of people, esp people in government who send their kids to private schools, for example, think of things. It's okay to syphon the "good" kids off to the "good" schools - what about everyone else who, for whatever reason, isn't syphoned? What if they turn out to be the kids of your apparently-middle-class-and-thus-unendangered mate's sister? We don't pay attention until aliens are threatening to use them as recreational drugs? What are we doing about this, apart from complaining outloud a wee bit to our mates?
Thing is, I've always thought that this is what stories are for - they're to make us think of something. It might be good happy fluffy thoughts, or it might be incredibly depressing thoughts, or it might be politics or to remind us that we make a difference, or just to say "This is what it's like living in a tiny village in Somerset/Hyderabad/Ontario", but... If I'm looking for definite happy endings, I don't pick up books/tv shows etc by authors that I know have murdered the hero's family or whatever - I go for something with... I dunno, Sandra Bullock on the cover. And if I do pick up that first author, then I know to expect their mindset, not mine. I didn't want Ianto killed, or Jack to run away, or any of many things that happened in CoE, but... that's what RTD does. And my big question is - why shouldn't he?
I don't understand why it's not okay for him to tell any story that he wants to tell...
He wasn't telling just a feel-good let's-Hollywood-kill-the-gooks story, he was telling something with a bit more substance to it, some politics, and a bit more reality - and for all it's science fiction, there's always been an element of reality in TW too, that's half of what makes it so good, because it drags you in to the things that you recognise... It doesn't make any sense to me to only want the funny bits of reality in something like TW, without expecting there might be a dark side to it as well...
And on a slightly different tack, it wasn't even as if Captain Jack did anything out of character either - except maybe cry over Ianto (*sighs*). The Guardian blog said this... (so I'm not the only person thinking it, I do know that!), and I've just re-watched TW1 ep1, which reminded me that actually Jack originally told Gwen that TW was far too busy to work even slightly with the police when they had information about murders etc - it's only at the end of the ep that he's somehow let Gwen affect him and decided that TW (Jack himself, of course) could act more compassionately. Or perhaps Susie's death affected him in that first ep, and then Ianto's affected him back the other way, in TW3, when he used his nephew? Anyway - there's always been that ruthlessness about Jack, and he's also always run away from stuff and seemed pretty shallow... I love Ianto's response to that in COE4, mind... *g*
Aaaand.... I dunno. *g* Just rambling. I'm sure many people are rambling far more intelligently and academically about it elsewhere, but... I do think it's interesting, that there are all these different ways to react and relate to stories. In some cultures it's considered possible to own stories. In other cultures I've read/heard stories that didn't seem to have any beginning or even end - they were completely made of middle. Or if they had a bad ending, there was no attempt to explain it as "she got what she deserved", no attempt even to make heroes and villains particularly separate. I guess parts of fandom culture have their own expectations too. But whatever anyone thinks, the stories are always there in the first place, as stories.
What d'you think?! *g*
It was a show to make you think, wasn't it, and no matter how much I hated what happened with Ianto, and how sad I thought it all was, and how horrid and uncomfortable parts of it made me feel - it was bloody good, and I think RTD is one of the bravest writers/producers etc for telly in the UK today. (And I really hope he's not moving to the US to make a Torchwood there, cos that would ruin it, even if it was done by him... *sighs sadly and hopes desperately that it's all rumour*) I do wonder if MS might have watched, and if he would have approved, because it was tv with the think-y bits left in, just like Apparitions was (also shouted at by many people, esp. "fandom"-people... *g*)
Anyway - I've been as intrigued by people's reactions as by anything else, which have really surprised me. There's been a definite what's he doing to us? feel to alot of reactions I've seen, and how dare he and does he think he can get away with upsetting the fans and all - and lots of foot stomping and people saying they'll never watch TW again, etc, etc. Which is kind of moot if there really isn't going to be another series, but I can totally see that there could be - and that it could even feature Ianto, considering the various dimension-ly goings on of the DW and TW universes... *g*
But that aside, it made me wonder about the exact nature of "fandom" and fanfic and whether it makes us expect certain things - sort of an outgrowth of the whole debate over warnings, and labels etc (and which came first, the labels or the wanting... *g*) But - it seemed, in the warnings discussions that I read, that people in fandom are often (definitely not wholly, and I'm one of the not-wholly *g*) reading fanfic as kind of comfort-reading. They're actually expecting it to make them feel good, perhaps when things aren't going well elsewhere, perhaps just in general, and that's why alot of people want warnings for things that aren't going to make them feel good (without getting into the whole different levels of that, from "triggers" to makes-me-sad etc).
And it occurs to me to wonder if TW in particular has sort of breached the fourth wall and is almost a victim of that - because I know my flist and alot of the lists/sites etc that I've surfed have been full of people complaining about what RTD did - as if he did something to them. It took me a while to figure out why I was also feeling sad about Ianto and Jack and the government and the whole thing, as they were, but not angry at RTD about it all - I'm actually well impressed with him, and think he's been very brave, and that there was something rather poetic about the whole thing (from start of TW1 to end of TW3). And I wonder if it's because I don't think of myself as a "fan" of TW (I suspect I have a very odd view of myself as a "fan", and it's very much centred only around Pros!), so I was just there for the story. And I certainly wasn't expecting that because TW has interacted with fans/fandom, that the interaction was... symbiotic? in any way - I thought it was about him telling a story that he wanted to tell, not necessarily one that "fans" wanted to watch. Cos isn't that what stories are? There for the telling, not necessarily for the hearing?
I loved the story. I loved Ianto's story, and Jack's, and both of them together. I like Andy's story, I don't mind Gwen's as long as it's connected to Rhys, and I could eventually even muster up interest for Tosh and even Owen. I loved the story about the way the world coped with what appeared to be a huge influx of aliens, without ever admitting to it; I loved the centre for aliens not always being London or Roswell or anywhere, but Cardiff; and I was fascinated by the stories of the way humanity in the series responded to everything. TW's always been grey about that - there've always been villains who didn't seem like villains at first, or who were just people who'd been caught up in something bigger than their normal lives, and I suppose I just seen CoE as a sort of extension of that. Frobisher, a good civil servant - but by whose terms? Was that a Prime Minister that we'd voted in? And all those people at the COBRA meeting, how did they get to be there? Cos they all connect to us at some level, so we're not blameless in anything that they did - and that can make people very uncomfortable. What have you stood up for, today?
And the whole SATs/failing schools thing was brilliantly done - go RTD for saying that out loud to a massive prime time audience. Cos we know that's what a lot of people, esp people in government who send their kids to private schools, for example, think of things. It's okay to syphon the "good" kids off to the "good" schools - what about everyone else who, for whatever reason, isn't syphoned? What if they turn out to be the kids of your apparently-middle-class-and-thus-unendangered mate's sister? We don't pay attention until aliens are threatening to use them as recreational drugs? What are we doing about this, apart from complaining outloud a wee bit to our mates?
Thing is, I've always thought that this is what stories are for - they're to make us think of something. It might be good happy fluffy thoughts, or it might be incredibly depressing thoughts, or it might be politics or to remind us that we make a difference, or just to say "This is what it's like living in a tiny village in Somerset/Hyderabad/Ontario", but... If I'm looking for definite happy endings, I don't pick up books/tv shows etc by authors that I know have murdered the hero's family or whatever - I go for something with... I dunno, Sandra Bullock on the cover. And if I do pick up that first author, then I know to expect their mindset, not mine. I didn't want Ianto killed, or Jack to run away, or any of many things that happened in CoE, but... that's what RTD does. And my big question is - why shouldn't he?
I don't understand why it's not okay for him to tell any story that he wants to tell...
He wasn't telling just a feel-good let's-Hollywood-kill-the-gooks story, he was telling something with a bit more substance to it, some politics, and a bit more reality - and for all it's science fiction, there's always been an element of reality in TW too, that's half of what makes it so good, because it drags you in to the things that you recognise... It doesn't make any sense to me to only want the funny bits of reality in something like TW, without expecting there might be a dark side to it as well...
And on a slightly different tack, it wasn't even as if Captain Jack did anything out of character either - except maybe cry over Ianto (*sighs*). The Guardian blog said this... (so I'm not the only person thinking it, I do know that!), and I've just re-watched TW1 ep1, which reminded me that actually Jack originally told Gwen that TW was far too busy to work even slightly with the police when they had information about murders etc - it's only at the end of the ep that he's somehow let Gwen affect him and decided that TW (Jack himself, of course) could act more compassionately. Or perhaps Susie's death affected him in that first ep, and then Ianto's affected him back the other way, in TW3, when he used his nephew? Anyway - there's always been that ruthlessness about Jack, and he's also always run away from stuff and seemed pretty shallow... I love Ianto's response to that in COE4, mind... *g*
Aaaand.... I dunno. *g* Just rambling. I'm sure many people are rambling far more intelligently and academically about it elsewhere, but... I do think it's interesting, that there are all these different ways to react and relate to stories. In some cultures it's considered possible to own stories. In other cultures I've read/heard stories that didn't seem to have any beginning or even end - they were completely made of middle. Or if they had a bad ending, there was no attempt to explain it as "she got what she deserved", no attempt even to make heroes and villains particularly separate. I guess parts of fandom culture have their own expectations too. But whatever anyone thinks, the stories are always there in the first place, as stories.
What d'you think?! *g*
