Disturbed. But not by guns or pencils.
Sunday, 18 December 2005 07:42 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
byslantedlightFeeling the need to talk about something, and since there is no one else around, it turns out that my lj may have to be used for such cathartic purposes. Apologies in advance. And I'm kind of rambling (for a change), and it's all just impressions. My impressions. I may be overreacting. We'll see.
Erm. I may be on the verge of doing something unforgivable. I, um, may be on the verge of agreeing with something that the NRA said.
Okay, so if you're still with me, you'd better hear this out. Or at least read the second-last sentence. See, the only thing I suspect I now agree with is that guns don't kill people, people do. And that's it. Now, that in itself is disturbing enough, but the whole reason this has come up is that - being terribly responsible - I went to a handgun education class tonight.
See, as part of my work I go out in the field over the summer, and up here that means exposing yourself to grizz and black and even polar bear, and moose (which some people are far more afraid of than bear) and wolves and other lovely critters like that. Now me, that doesn't bother me, I'm a big proponent of not putting yourself in a bad situation in the first place. Make noise, don't sleep beside your food stash, that sort of thing. And if yer number comes up, then it does (easy to say, I know...) But the vast majority of people I work with up here? They bring guns. I'm not condemning them for it I guess, it's a tricky situation. But the fact is, they bring guns and I'm gonna be surrounded by them. So I figure the clever thing is to find out how the bloody things work, so as to minimise... the not knowing. So I went to the class.
The guns didn't bother me. We handled a number of revolvers and semi-automatics, got the feel of the various parts. We were shown a vid, and were told the basic safety guidelines. Like never point one at a person. Gee, really? Was a bit annoyed that they passed the different guns around while the instructor was describing other guns and showing where the various components were and how they worked. How can you pay attention to two complex things at once? Hopefully that'll sort out over the rest of the course. But there is no denying that, especially to someone who's never handled them before, guns are tricky things. There are more components than you might think to get to grips with, apart from the (also disturbing) natural tendency to hold them with your finger actually on the trigger - which is another one of the basic safety things you're not supposed to do. And they're heavy, and big, and my hands don't stretch far enough to flick catches comfortably.
But none of that really bothered me, that's all a familiarity and practice thing. What bothered me was the approach of everyone bar one person in that class. We were shown a standard introductory video. This showed a woman hearing noises outside when she was alone at night, gathering her child to her, phoning a friend to say she was scared and then getting out the box in which her husband kept the gun she didn't know how to use. Her friend comes around with a torch, stands at the door telling her that she should learn to use the gun, and then wanders casually off saying that it was probably a dog, and to call if she has any more bother. The next day she trots obediently off to learn how to shoot because that is the best way to protect herself. What the huh? Now, I know that was a video, and it was made by the NRA (surprise) but the thing is that almost everyone in that class totally agreed with the idea that a gun was necessary to protect yourself, and that a concealed handgun was a good idea for personal protection. And I know, they were in the class in the first place so what did I expect? But there was such a level of...acceptance, that this was the way the world should be and there was no other possible response.
And I know that I knew about this attitude before I went in, but knowing, and having it hit you in the guts are two completely different things. And it was so concentrated as well - there was only one girl who said outloud that she didn't like guns and was only there because her boyfriend had them around their house and so she wanted to know about them. Everyone else was desperate to choose what they were gonna buy, and whether a semi-automatic had any advantages over a revolver, and wondering about how often the one they kept loaded by the bed should be cleaned... There was a mother-daughter couple there because the mum was buying dear daughter a gun for christmas. Dear daughter swung her long blonde hair and gabbled excitedly about this between giggles. She was not mature enough to own a gun - what was her mother thinking?
A couple of women talked about bear, but mostly these guns were going to be used for "personal protection". The whole atmosphere was fear so deeply entrenched that it was now almost casually accepted, the expectation that one day they would have to use a handgun to protect themselves. These were women who I wouldn't have looked at twice, with responsible jobs and partners and families, that I would have assumed had rational, responsible beliefs in the dangers posed by guns, and that while a rifle out in the bush might be necessary, concealed handguns in town were a bad thing. I was wrong.
Although you know what? The whole thing left me feeling very proud of Britain's refusal to encourage private ownership of guns. Or even police ownership. Well done, you Britain, you.
So, my original point about agreeing with the NRA? It's the people that I'm alot more scared of now....
There are three more classes to go...
Erm. I may be on the verge of doing something unforgivable. I, um, may be on the verge of agreeing with something that the NRA said.
Okay, so if you're still with me, you'd better hear this out. Or at least read the second-last sentence. See, the only thing I suspect I now agree with is that guns don't kill people, people do. And that's it. Now, that in itself is disturbing enough, but the whole reason this has come up is that - being terribly responsible - I went to a handgun education class tonight.
See, as part of my work I go out in the field over the summer, and up here that means exposing yourself to grizz and black and even polar bear, and moose (which some people are far more afraid of than bear) and wolves and other lovely critters like that. Now me, that doesn't bother me, I'm a big proponent of not putting yourself in a bad situation in the first place. Make noise, don't sleep beside your food stash, that sort of thing. And if yer number comes up, then it does (easy to say, I know...) But the vast majority of people I work with up here? They bring guns. I'm not condemning them for it I guess, it's a tricky situation. But the fact is, they bring guns and I'm gonna be surrounded by them. So I figure the clever thing is to find out how the bloody things work, so as to minimise... the not knowing. So I went to the class.
The guns didn't bother me. We handled a number of revolvers and semi-automatics, got the feel of the various parts. We were shown a vid, and were told the basic safety guidelines. Like never point one at a person. Gee, really? Was a bit annoyed that they passed the different guns around while the instructor was describing other guns and showing where the various components were and how they worked. How can you pay attention to two complex things at once? Hopefully that'll sort out over the rest of the course. But there is no denying that, especially to someone who's never handled them before, guns are tricky things. There are more components than you might think to get to grips with, apart from the (also disturbing) natural tendency to hold them with your finger actually on the trigger - which is another one of the basic safety things you're not supposed to do. And they're heavy, and big, and my hands don't stretch far enough to flick catches comfortably.
But none of that really bothered me, that's all a familiarity and practice thing. What bothered me was the approach of everyone bar one person in that class. We were shown a standard introductory video. This showed a woman hearing noises outside when she was alone at night, gathering her child to her, phoning a friend to say she was scared and then getting out the box in which her husband kept the gun she didn't know how to use. Her friend comes around with a torch, stands at the door telling her that she should learn to use the gun, and then wanders casually off saying that it was probably a dog, and to call if she has any more bother. The next day she trots obediently off to learn how to shoot because that is the best way to protect herself. What the huh? Now, I know that was a video, and it was made by the NRA (surprise) but the thing is that almost everyone in that class totally agreed with the idea that a gun was necessary to protect yourself, and that a concealed handgun was a good idea for personal protection. And I know, they were in the class in the first place so what did I expect? But there was such a level of...acceptance, that this was the way the world should be and there was no other possible response.
And I know that I knew about this attitude before I went in, but knowing, and having it hit you in the guts are two completely different things. And it was so concentrated as well - there was only one girl who said outloud that she didn't like guns and was only there because her boyfriend had them around their house and so she wanted to know about them. Everyone else was desperate to choose what they were gonna buy, and whether a semi-automatic had any advantages over a revolver, and wondering about how often the one they kept loaded by the bed should be cleaned... There was a mother-daughter couple there because the mum was buying dear daughter a gun for christmas. Dear daughter swung her long blonde hair and gabbled excitedly about this between giggles. She was not mature enough to own a gun - what was her mother thinking?
A couple of women talked about bear, but mostly these guns were going to be used for "personal protection". The whole atmosphere was fear so deeply entrenched that it was now almost casually accepted, the expectation that one day they would have to use a handgun to protect themselves. These were women who I wouldn't have looked at twice, with responsible jobs and partners and families, that I would have assumed had rational, responsible beliefs in the dangers posed by guns, and that while a rifle out in the bush might be necessary, concealed handguns in town were a bad thing. I was wrong.
Although you know what? The whole thing left me feeling very proud of Britain's refusal to encourage private ownership of guns. Or even police ownership. Well done, you Britain, you.
So, my original point about agreeing with the NRA? It's the people that I'm alot more scared of now....
There are three more classes to go...
no subject
Date: Sunday, 18 December 2005 09:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 08:04 am (UTC)Actually I'd have thought there were probably more guns (legally perhaps I should say) in Devon than in many other parts of the country, for foxes and things like that... I know in Somerset we could hear people shooting occasionally, and it was apparently at the foxes who (admittedly) did come and slaughter all six of our hens in one night, only taking one to eat...
But you're right, whereas I can stand that if I have to, I cannot stand the idea of it being okay to shoot someone who comes into your house to steal the silver... I know, someone's bound to pipe up "But what if they want to kill you?" I kind of figure that if they're that set on it, then it's all gonna turn out pretty nasty anyway, and a gun in the sock drawer won't help all that much...
no subject
Date: Sunday, 18 December 2005 09:54 am (UTC)But people being people (and most people can act oddly or do illogical things), even the most skilled person can make mistakes or errors of judgement. So my own feeling is 'give guns to a minimum and make sure they know what they're doing'. Trying to ban anything that has - sadly - become widespread - leads to that feeling of 'I'm a rebel'.
Out of interest, and you probably know this, but all (well, most) Swiss men do military service. 3-4 months initial training, then every year or two years until they're 41. And they all come home with a nice big machine gun, plus sealed ammunition. Officers get pistols instead (or as well - not sure). Every year, they all have to do official shooting practice. And I think it's utterly *ridiculous* in this day and age, but that's me. Having that thing propped up in the cupboard (until Sir handed in his kit) used to make me shake my head in disgust. OK, so the ammunition is sealed. OK, so there are very few 'incidents'. But... ugh.
The PTB jump on people who use those rifles outside the 'authorised occasions' like a ton of bricks, although the Swiss mentality is - if somewhat passive-aggressive (that comes out when they're behind the wheel of a car, among other things) not too much a 'gun' one. So far, so good then. In a way, it does away with a lot of the urge to 'buy a private weapon', because those shiny things are tucked away in so many households. But what happens if things start to slip? If those *people* start to reach for their weapons a little more easily?
I have no idea if the so-called 'incidents' are on the rise. It wouldn't surprise me - and nor would the Swiss sweeping all that neatly under the carpet if it did. As I said, it doesn't seem to be the case, but it wouldn't, in my opinion, take much to turn the navel-gazing Swiss into a nation of gun-happy people. Way back in history, before they hit 'neutral country' fame (and I won't ramble on THAT but a lot of it is open to question), the peoples who now constitute a lot of 'Switzerland' (which is by no means an ethnic whole) were some of the most aggressive fighters around.
And I've rambled enough, when all I was going to say way 'hear hear'.
Oh, and it's still snowing!
no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 08:09 am (UTC)We've not had the snow back yet, but at least the temperature has dropped again. Except that my legs were just slightly numbed after walking for an hour to class at -16C!
no subject
Date: Sunday, 18 December 2005 10:56 am (UTC)German Law makes it rather difficult for normal people like me to buy weapons and I hope it stays that way. You have to prove that you have a reasonable cause or need if you want to buy one. If a "normal" person wants to buy a weapon, he has to prove that he's
a) a member of a shooting club for longer than a year
b) that he or she shoots regularly
c) that he visited the obligatory class about the safety issues
Means: before you can buy a gun here, you have to prove that you can handle the gun safely, that you are aware of the danger and that you know what you are doing in general.
And even if you get the permission to buy a weapon, you are not allowed to carry it openly. There are strict regulations about transporting and the storage of guns. Only the police, security or hunters have the permission to actually carry guns.
I used to hate weapons, until recently I even refused to touch them. Things have changed since I joined the local shooting club. I have tried shooting different sorts of weapons and also made the obligatory course about the safety issues. Now I'm much more comfortable with handling guns, I know how to use them. But my attitude hasn't changed. Weapons are dangerous, even if you know how to handle them. I hope I'll never lose that respect of guns, but I doubt it.
no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 08:13 am (UTC)What made you decide to learn how to shoot, if you don't mind my asking?
no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 09:54 am (UTC)Anyway, it might sound weird, but it's really fun to shoot. It kind of helps that we shoot at normal targets. It would feel strange if I had to aim at human shaped targets, don't think I'd do that.
no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 10:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 10:32 am (UTC)I really have to have a go with my hubby's .357 magnum revolver. I can always start with the .38 rounds first.
I intend to buy a 9-mil weapon for me next year. Probably a Sig-Sauer:
http://www.sig-sauer.de/index.php?id=490&lang=en
no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 07:58 am (UTC)I take comfort though in the fact that in Britain it is still considered wrong and unneccessary to carry a concealed weapon or even to own a gun unless you have a very good reason!
The first comparison that popped into my head was that of apartheid in South Africa (just go with me here a minute!) There will always be people who are racist, who treat people of different colours badly, but the fact that the law in South Africa allowed them to do so was what was wrong - it gave no power at all to the people who this hurt, and the people who fought against the innate wrongness of racism itself. But just as bad was the way that fear between the different colours was whipped up, thus propping up racism even outside its legal protection of apartheid, and thus prolonging it even once the law was dismantled... And my gun class was a bit like that - it wasn't the guns or the laws that were the worst thing for me here, it was the fear that was being propagated through their existence... and I can't see the rest of the world being able to pressure for change in this case...
And I agree, I would equate the chances of being attacked by a grizzly bear up here at roughly the chances (for the "average" person) of being attacked by someone with a concealed gun back home. Pretty unlikely. And in both cases there are a hundred other ways of being killed way up there jostling for first try. What I don't like over here is that the concealed gun way is given a headstart - because alot of people carry, or have them at home, or take them with them while they go out walking. So not only might you get hit by a car as you walk out the door, but the idiot driving could get out and shoot the person who distracted them and made them hit you in the first place...
Gosh, what an awful lot of words I've used to say "Yes, good points Bamfie!"
no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 08:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Sunday, 18 December 2005 12:01 pm (UTC)Can't argue with anything you said. I'm much happier living in a country that doesn't regard a handgun as a suitable Christmas present for a teenager. I think our murder rates show thats a sensible attitude.
no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 08:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 04:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sunday, 18 December 2005 02:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Monday, 19 December 2005 08:23 am (UTC)The childbirth class thing I mean, not the "J" *g*