Don't Buy the Zines!

[byslantedlight]

Can I just say - gaaaaaah!

Have just been wandering around on Ebay and found some of the most blatant rip-off prices for Pros zines that I have ever seen - please, please please don't pay these prices for zines, especially ones that are still in print!

Links are not to the ebay seller, but...
The Peerless Pair - a fab AU historical zine by HG - is being sold for US$50.00 +p&p. It's available for half that price, brand new, from the publisher! That's being sold by someone called bandit2142 - he's always been overpriced, he's a dealer, and he's totally making money from HG's writing here. Making a profit from someone else's hard work and generously given effort! Leech!

In the Public Interest III is being sold by "Doctor Beth2000" for - wait for this - US$100.00 +p&p! Three of the stories are available in the archives - and I bet the other two are on the UK paper circuit.

Where do these people get off charging prices like that? They're blatantly making money from fic that was given freely to fandom - bastards!

Another one - Bene Dictum: A Dickensian Christmas can be downloaded for free at the publisher's own website - printed off in exactly the zine format, and comb bound yourself if you want it - "DoctorBeth2000" wants US$45.00 for it! The stories are also available for free online at the Circuit, Hatstand and on the ProsLib CD! Gaaaaaargh! I've seen her around ever since I was in Pros, and always overpriced too. I hear that she claims to be selling off her own zine collection - at the risk of sounding cycnical, yeah, right...

You know I love zines - I adore zines, proper paper stories, so much more than reading from the internet and my computer screen, but... please, please, please don't be ripped off by these people! You can defend capitalism all you want to me, and tell me that people won't pay it if they don't want it, and if they do then that's a fair price, but... no. Selling fanfic like that, blatantly making a profit from selling other people's writing when those authors were careful enough to fly under the fandom radar themselves? Just... no!

Grr.

Now back to writing. Which will always be free to Pros fans! *g*

Comments

[enednoviel.livejournal.com]

Her S&H zines are waaaay overpriced, too. I wonder who is paying that kind of money for the zines. I wouldn't. And selling off her own collection? Bullshit. I've seen her selling the same zines over and over again.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Oh I know - she's either taking a long time to sell her collection, or her collection keeps magically renewing... Mind you, at those prices... *g* I seem to recall a small faff when she was selling a zine still in publication a couple of years ago, for much more than the "new" price - I think she eventually claimed she didn't know (there's not that many publishers around, it's not that hard to find out) and lowered the price, but...

I guess the people who buy them will be fans who don't know - fans who are just starting out in fandom, or who don't know the communities yet. There's not that much discussion of zines for sale and prices in Pros, for instance, so how do you know, especially for secondhand zines... But those two dealers have been around for years - they should know, and be sodding ashamed of themselves... Grr!

[towerbridge2006.livejournal.com]

She bought half my TS collection at
Media West a couple of years ago. She bought an S&H from me last year. I'd much rather sell to those who want to read them.

[msmoat.livejournal.com]

Blimey, $100? I have that sitting on my shelf. Huh. D you reckon it's the color artwork on the front and back? I can't imagine anyone paying that price for that. It would only appeal to fans--and fans would know better. I wouldn't pay $100 for an original edition of Harlequin Airs--and that's a piece of fannish history, gorgeous art work throughout, and a good story all rolled into one. That kind of price of ItPI III is...insane.

It reminds me of the talk I went to by that faculty member on the slash community. Just as you don't go to YouTube to find the real fannish vid community; you don't go to ebay to find the fannish zine community. That's not our world.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I know, I've got it too! Trouble is, how are fans supposed to know better? There's not a huge amount of talk about zines and their prices these days - I've not put up anything at palelyloitering about prices - I dunno, maybe I should...

But - we only know better once we've been around a while, if we look into it. Remember discovering zines, and sitting down with your first copies to read the stories, and just being so in love with them? And wanting them? I worry that new fans won't know what to expect in the way of zines yet, will pay those prices in the rush of first love... I've never had that kind of money, so it was never an option, but...

Definitely not our world, out there in ebay-land - although you do get some things genuinely sold there (well, if you believe there is genuine selling of Pros merchandise - I suppose there is, of officially printed magazines and so on, but... not of fanzines!)

[londonronnie.livejournal.com]

Couldn't agree more. People like this are taking advantage of fans who don't have the experience and/or knowledge to realise that they are being taken for a ride over these prices.

We're all wet behind the ears when we enter fandom, and if somebody tells you that a certain zine is "rare" then you're inclined to believe them.

And it's not just zines, of course - Pros memorabilia appears regularly on Ebay at vastly inflated prices.

I realise that these dealers (which is what they are, despite what they say) have to make a living, but cashing in on people's innocence is just inexcusable IMHO.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Pros memorabilia sells for ridiculous prices on Ebay - I can never afford the prices bid on magazine articles and so on. But at least when it's merchandise it's something the original creators were once paid for - but writers in fandom are never paid for their work, and I despise people who try to make money from other people like that - and as you say from people's lack of experience/knowledge.

Making a living is one thing - making it honestly and in a way deserving of respect is something else entirely...

[sc-fossil.livejournal.com]

I find it amazing the complete lack of research folks do. A while back an 8 by 10 photo of one of the guys in Sentinel went for over 200 dollars. And anybody could buy that picture for less than 20 dollars from other sources. It wasn't autographed and even then, most TS pics go for under 20.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

But that's just it - not everyone knows how to do that research, knows where the information is. You can find information about zine prices over the past few years on the various Yahoo lists I guess - but you need to know that they're there in the first place. And some people will always be more gullible than others - it doesn't mean I have any respect for the people who try to take advantage of that fact... Those dealers know that they're ripping off a)people who don't know any better, and b)the original writers, artists and publishers of those zines, who were not legally allowed to make any money from what they did, and were doing it for the love of their fandoms...

[towerbridge2006.livejournal.com]

OMG! Doctor Beth buys up everything she can find at Media West and rarely pays the asked price, which is much, much lower than what she's asking.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Oh charming - so she's absolutely out to buy cheap from genuine sellers, and sell for big bucks to people who don't have other sources. Nice, very nice. And presumably this continues because people at cons like Media West will sell to her to get their own cut of the wedge. *sigh* See, this is where principles come need to come into it all!

[probodie.livejournal.com]

I absolutely totally and completely agree with you. I've seen Dr Beth's zines before and there is a reason they arent selling! Get a clue, you moron!

There is a major difference between selling a zine starting at, say, £10 and people bidding on it until it goes over £100, and actually pricing something at $100!

Totally disgusting individual, IMHO. I dont this other person, but even so, to sell zines that can be bought direct from the publisher and for a lot less is terrible.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

There is a major difference between selling a zine starting at, say, £10 and people bidding on it until it goes over £100, and actually pricing something at $100!
Exactly... the one has, whether we like it or not, a market-based principle to it. If there are millionaires out there who can buy it, then they will. (I far prefer the fandom gift-economy myself, I think we have something of far higher value without any money being exchanged at all) - but at least it's starting out fairly...

Bandit has been around at least as long as DoctorBeth2000, and is at least as highly priced - I don't know whether he does the rounds of cons to buy zines cheaply, but even so... I mean, even given the UK-US exchange rate right now, US$50 =UK£35! Last I heard from the publisher's, it was barely £15.00 in brand new mint condition! Which you can still buy! Gaaaaagh!

[windrain10.livejournal.com]

I can't really talk as I bot a set of three Pros zines for $300 last year (but it seemed the only way to get them, and I did do some looking around first).

It's selling them on ebay that I don't care for (I didn't buy the $300 zines on ebay, I bot them privately) - I don't think fandom belongs on ebay.

I was just talking to a friend about our zines, etc., and what would happen to them should we die, and I have resolved to talk to my husband about it, and make sure that he knows what I would like done w/ my things when I pass.

Throwing them out or putting them on ebay is not what I have in mind.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Ohmigod! What were the zines? (If you don't mind me asking?)

I dunno - I can live with ebay if things are being sold fairly. As probodie says above, it's one thing if a zine starts out on ebay for a fair price, and is so rare and wonderful that people bid US$100 for it. It's completely different to start at that price in the hope that someone gullible will see it, know no better, and Buy it now!...

[akin16sk.livejournal.com]

if they are actually making money of it, isn't it stealing, like copyright infrigement or something?

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what it seems like to me - stealing and copyright infringement (although I bet they'd try to blame the writers). Not to mention just... immoral - making money from someone else's work, when that original person could never be paid for it. It's one thing to sell on a second hand book, where the writers were originally paid for their work - but in fandom? Theft and copyright infringement, surely!

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, I really get the impression that the people who actually buy these zines aren't in touch with the rest of fandom or they would know about zine websites where you can buy the same zine for half or a third of the price. Out of ignorance or disinterest, they've never connected to fandom.

I normally sell my zines through groups (it's easier in that you reach just those people who are fans of that particular pairing,) but if that fails, I have no problem at all trying to sell them on eBay. Of course, my start price is usually around what I tried selling them on the group. The fact that I've been able to sell zines on eBay after not finding a buyer within the fandom only affirms my belief that, for some, eBay is their only avenue for buying zines.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Hmmn - or it might suggest that the Groups are getting more and more inaccessible... The only way I managed to find any of the Yahoo groups, including ProsLit, Zinelist and Slashswap, was if someone actually sent me a link to the group so that I could get in that way. Knowing the name wasn't enough - they never seemed to turn up on searches! And thinking about Pros, there's not any lj access to secondhand zines - you can find AWS and perhaps Requiem and Hermit/Knightwriter, but Pros fans don't often seem to sell zines secondhand in easily-googled forums... maybe that's why people turn to ebay? It's actually what I did, nearly four years ago now - and incidentally once reason I decided to set up palelyloitering. Only of course then you get into the whole be-nice-to-people thing... but I could link to debates like this, actually - it's the sort of thing that would be helpful... if people ever came across the site in the first place.

Just had a google for "The Professionals zines" and "Bodie and Doyle zines" - I get AWS, Alijot, and that Fanlore site (is that the one by that awful woman who's also out to make money?) and then AWS, justacat's one zine, Knightwriter, links to various stories that are in zines... but nothing about how to find second-hand zines! Hmmn!

[phantomas.livejournal.com]

I...GAHHHHHHH!

That's blatant exploitation :(

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I know! How bad and horrid and leech-like is that?!

[greengerbil.livejournal.com]

There's actually three zines up on UK e-Bay now, Hatstand Expresses. I checked the previous sales of that dealer and s/he had never sold zines before, and has put a starting price of 99p on each of them.

To me that says that the seller is selling off old zines of their own and is not a dealer. And if the bids go sky-high - well, at least that's market forces, it's not the seller asking for silly money.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Yes, I saw those ones too - they're "letterzines", which aren't quite the same as zines anyway (not nearly as many pages, usually, lots of loc and other bits and pieces as well as bits of stories - short stories - if you're lucky. They're priced fairly reasonably (although most of the stories that same seller has listed for separate sale are online - even so you'd pay for printing, or photocopying). As you say - clearly not a dealer trying to make a major profit, there!

I mean, I'm not mad-keen on Ebay as a general format for selling Pros fan stuff really, cos it becomes not market forces, exactly, but whoever has the most money available to buy something. "Market force" might mean that ten people are all prepared to pay a fair and reasonable price for something - individual wealth means that anyone able and prepared to bid more than a fair and reasonable price will always be able to buy the goods. In theory it's reasonable enough - but in practice it's the same old wealthy-end-up-stockpiling-goods, which I think is a shame. I think I prefer the type of sale list where it's simply this-is-the-price-first-come-first-served... But then that's a whole different debate. *g*

But either is preferable to what DrBeth2000 and Bandit2142 seem to be about...

[felmyst.livejournal.com]

You know that is funny you listed Dr. Beth..she bought zines from me ( I always sold my used zines for 1/2 current selling prices), I bet she sold them on ebay for a lot more...

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Ah... I bet she did - grrrrr! It's basically taking zines out of fannish circulation so that she can make money on them - grrrr! There's not enough of those old zines around that it's okay for people to do that! Hmmn - I wonder would an lj zine-swap list of some sort help, come to think of it... I don't know anywhere on lj that does that, for Pros zines, anyway...