Watching a Pros ep - Wild Justice

[byslantedlight]

I almost missed msmoat's post about Pros the other day (it's been nice to catch up on some of the interesting questions being posted about our lads recently - more of those, please! *g*) She asked What is your favorite Pros episode that other people don't like?, and although I find it very hard to answer favourite ep questions usually (many! for many different reasons!), I had an answer for this one, because I remember being so surprised to realise that other people didn't like this ep. As I said to her, I'm not sure whether people did once like it, but people nowadays don't, or whether they never did like it much and I just assumed they did because it's one of my favourites. And I thought about why I like it, for MsMoat's post, and then I thought about how I should perhaps watch it tonight - and maybe post some pics, cos it's been aaaaages since I did that... *g* So - here's some things I like about Wild Justice. *g*

1. The bit on the roof where Doyle slaps Bodie's leg as they set off across the roof! *g*

They're touching from the off - can't be bad. *g*

2. The lads training. We know they can't have exciting ops every day, and that they must train, but we don't really see that (Mixed Doubles was for a specific op). Lads off the streets! Lads in a new context!

And they're looking at each other. And smiling. *g*

3. The lads all in black... *g*


4. A more recent happiness - Michael Shipman from Gavin and Stacey Jack Crane. (Larry Lamb).

Mick was our Jack Crane!

5. Doyle in a tux - and that he borrowed it from Bodie. Doyle borrows Bodie's clothes! And the fab bowtie sequence with Cowley. Cowley getting impatient and all personal and tying Doyle's bow tie for him - at least if Doyle hadn't taken Cowley's hands away and... there's just something here, isn't there, in the way Cowley takes over and Doyle lets him. Not slashy, but... Doyle is Cowley's man, not just to put in danger, body and soul, but to look after as well. *g*





And you can't go wrong with a bit of Doyle leaning. *g*

6. The lads grinning joyfully at each other...

And on the monkey bars, above. *g*

7. Doyle's description of the lady novelist that he and Bodie allegedly work for - - totally a Pros slash fan... *vbg*
SALLY: What sort of works?
DOYLE: Bondage and romance.
SALLY: How old is she?
DOYLE: Eighty-nine. She's the wife of a vicar.

8. The bikes. Okay, this is a bit of... sort of nostalgia. My little brother rode enduros like the one Doyle rode, and I went to watch him a couple of times - I was usually on the Island for the Boxing Day enduro. (He reckons the widowmaker is do-able, btw, but he said the same as Doyle did - have to be careful not to loop the loop!)

How many photos do I have like these two?!



9. Bodie's hands all over Doyle when he wins the race. Well - obviously. *g*


10. Doyle stripping off all those muddy clothes. Well - obviously. *g*


11. Doyle is so angry that Bodie's doing the widowmaker - he's so scared and cross that he can't watch... there's got to be a reason for that, doesn't there... *g*


12. And who is it who ultimately saves the day? A strong, smart woman, not a bloke with a gun.


See? What's not to like? *vbg*

Comments

[mab-browne.livejournal.com]

I like Wild Justice well enough, for many of the reasons you lay out here. I think one reason why it's not hugely popular (if that is indeed the case, I couldn't say) will be lads' relationship reasons - namely, Bodie doesn't tell Doyle what he's up to. Now, it's easy enough to justify that - Bodie is up to no good in a legal sense, even if he's driven by a personal sense of loyalty and justice, so he's going to leave Doyle with plausible deniability. Also, he hits Doyle in the fight in the forest from recollection? Always a black mark. Also, while some watchers will kink on deeply intensely violent Bodie, other people will find that quality off-putting. I always recall LC's claim that he was too aggressive a Bond candidate for the Broccoli era, and that aggression is on display in spades in this ep. Also, I can't remember what the background was for the deaths, and how involved the biker gang was in the whole thing - so maybe some of the plot holes keep it out of classic episode status?

Also, while I like Kate Ross I get the feeling that that's not an entirely mutual feeling over the fandom over time. *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

lads' relationship reasons - namely, Bodie doesn't tell Doyle what he's up to
Yes, I do see that - I suppose it's just that in my head I do also see why Bodie might not tell Doyle about it, and it can go so many interesting ways that again I rather assume other people might see those ways too! And I do assume that they have a back-and-forth relationship at this stage too, rather than effectively being married, so to me it's all part of those glitches, which makes it all more interesting... Same with Bodie hitting Doyle in the woods - I don't think he looks at Doyle and decides to hit him, I think he's just fighting anyone who moves, and Doyle calling out probably doesn't even register with him. And I love that Doyle jumps back in anyway, and goes to defend him again...

I don't particularly like deeply intensely violent Bodie, but I dislike him far more in Close Quarters, where he seems to be thinking about what he's doing, than here, where he's reacting very emotionally/irrationally for specific psychological reasons (I know you could cry that about CQ too...), and I've seen CQ get much better reviews - and again, the lads are separate even more in that one. So yeah, maybe it's a Bodie-fan thing to some extent.

I know what you mean about Ross, too. I do think it's a shame that so many of the female characters in Pros are slagged off by fans (and female fans!) - I don't get it... it's not like they usually take screen time from the lads - and Ross was saving Bodie's life! *sighs*

And hee - Pros is a fishing-net of plot holes, but that's half the joy of Prosfic, surely! *g* If they were all neatly sewn up, there'd be no space left to write...

[mab-browne.livejournal.com]

Oh god, don't get me started on Close Quarters. Not an ep that shows young Master Bodie at his best, at all....

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Hee - it really doesn't...!

[hagsrus.livejournal.com]

I always think Bodie's clothes would be a touch baggy on Doyle.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Lol - his trousers, certainly! I can see a shirt working though - Doyle's got broad enough shoulders and a chest that they'd probably just look comfortably loose on him, I reckon... *g*

[dollidaydream.livejournal.com]

I love this episode. I didn't realise that it isn't a fandom favourite. To me, it's like a behind the scenes episode - we get to see the lads training, we see the psychological machinery behind CI5's personnel, we see a relationship between Cowley and Doyle (the bowtie) and between Bodie and Doyle (borrowing the tux) and we see a shared hobby (the bikes) and more background on Bodie. For me, it's like a context-giving episode (if that makes *any* sense!)

Like you I like the training at the beginning and seeing the lads in a different environment. The training gives them credibility in their day jobs. There is an awesome scene from a production point of view where the PTB are discussing Bodie and it's all one shot. It always catches my eye. I like the scene with Cowley, Doyle and Bodie's tux, too. Nice lighting in that scene, nice direction, night lighting and another scene with some extra context around the relationships of the three of them - in this instance I feel that Cowley helping Doyle with his bowtie is shorthand for us to realise that it's the two of them together who will sort out the Bodie Situation (a bit like the Bonnie Situation, but with less blood)! I have a real enjoyment for eps in any fandom where one of the guys goes rouge, so I guess that's another reason I like this episode. I also enjoy listening to the voice of the person giving the psych questions and trying to figure out if it's Steven Pacey!

Anyway, this is starting to sound like an essay, so I'm off!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Essay away - not least because I tend to! *g*

And yeay for liking Wild Justice!

To me, it's like a behind the scenes episode
Yes! Nice way to describe it!

where one of the guys goes rouge
Rouge? Like blusher? I think that's a whole different episode... *vbg* (Sorry, I couldn't resist - perfect typo for rogue there! *vbg*

Steven Pacey? You mean Steven Pacey Tarrant Steven Pacey?! Ooh - I shall have to go back and listen to the psych questions! *g*

[dollidaydream.livejournal.com]

lol! Yes like the *blusher* - even as I was typing it I was thinking that I can never tell the two words apart! *g* (And in any case, it matches Bodie's eyeliner from the fist-through-the-door incident! *g*). Do go back and listen to the voice, it always sounds like Steven Pacey to me.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Hee - excellent point about Bodie's eye-liner! *g*

Hmmn - had another listen to Tarrant possible-Steven-Pacey, and I don't know - I'd need to get out me Blake's Seven again, it's been aaages since I watched him! Did he sound that posh in B7?!

[(Anonymous)]

Welcome back! I have to admit this wasn't one of my all-time fave episodes but it did intrigue me when I first saw it. I did like the glimpse into their training [added a nice bit of credibility] but found it hard to warm to the idea of Bodie possibly losing the plot and going 'bad'. It all got too intellectual for me with Kate Ross trying to decipher Bodie's behaviour; but watching him and Doyle trying to beat the computer questionnaires was amusing. Otherwise my favourite scene was the one previously mentioned between Cowley and Ray - I loved the flat he was currently calling home; especially that beautiful round window! ...Kiashi

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Yeay - nice to be back! *g*

Bodie possibly losing the plot and going 'bad'
I wondered if that might be one of the reasons people didn't like it - but we do see him doing that in other episodes. What about in Man Without a Past when he disobeys Cowley's orders and tracks down whats-his-name, ready to do some serious damage? And Close Quarters, where the only explanation I can come up with for his bizarre behaviour is that he's on pain meds that have messed with his mind?! I dunno - it just doesn't seem that far out of character to me, if we accept the premise that he's reacting to something from his past...

I love Doyle's flat here too - so light, and it always makes me think it must be high up, for some reason - that window! (Although it also makes me want to sing a little bit - There's a bear in there... *vbg*)

[heliophile-oxon.livejournal.com]

Great pics and observations :-)
I seem to remember there are quite a lot of fics that spring from this ep, so it has clearly siezed the imagination - perhaps because that apparent breakdown of communications between the lads definitely needs explaining! *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Well thank you! *bows* (*falls over own feet, pics self up and dusts down, attempts to resume dignity*) *g*

that apparent breakdown of communications between the lads definitely needs explaining!
Yes! That's something else I love about it - there's clearly backstory between our lads for this ep - something's pushed them apart, even though they're still close in other ways (those looks!) I like to think that Doyle takes Bodie home to wash the mud off him in the next scene... *vbg*

[miwahni.livejournal.com]

I don't dislike the episode per se but I dislike that Bodie kept Doyle in the dark about something that was so deeply affecting him. I know that blokes aren't as likely to talk about their problems as fanfic authors would have us believe but it still bugs me that Bodie just shuts Doyle out, even when it begins affecting his performance on the job. I also don't enjoy the whole bikes-as-pissing-contest that goes on.

I do like the lads in camo, and Doyle's head band a la Rambo. And Susan Ross is an interesting character - how hard she'd have to be, in those days, to do that job and be respected for it.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

it still bugs me that Bodie just shuts Doyle out, even when it begins affecting his performance on the job
Bizarrely enough, I kind of like that - it means there's unexplained backstory that we have to fill in to make sense of it. Tension! Sexual tension! Making up in the next scene! All that emotional hurt/comfort for them to deal with... *g*

The bikes do go on a bit, but no worse than various things in other eps, so it's not particularly stood out for me. Plus boys, muddy and wet... *g*

I like Kate Ross alot - she is tough, and I like that she gives back as good as the lads throw at her, rather than just fainting at their feet in adoration, as the weekly love interest. And she saves Bodie! *g*

[macklingirl.livejournal.com]

You're so right! Wild Justice is a wonderful episode because it shows one side of Bodie we all don't know about. Thanks for reminding me. I think I should watch it once more.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Oh yeay, it's got three fans then! *vbg*

it shows one side of Bodie we all don't know about
Yes! I like that about it too - it's so cool to find out more about our lads (even if it's not always good - they're not angels after all, or Hollywood Heroes, they're ordinary men doing a difficult job...) I think you should watch it again too. *vbg*

[snailbones.livejournal.com]

Hmm, it's an odd ep for me - I don't dislike it, exactly, but I think possibly there are bits that irritate me that stick in my mind more than the bits I like. Some of it is the filming, especially the racing sequences, where I find it hard to tell one mud-covered bloke from another - there aren't any close-ups and it goes on a fairly long time. Iz easily bored! And there's not enough explanation of Bodie's apparent vendetta - I have to fill in too much backstory for myself. Then there's Doyle, getting positively flappy towards the end, not understanding what's wrong, and not finding out... Yes, I think that's what really irritates me. I can't help but feel Doyle would act differently... or is that just me? The bow tie scene makes up for an awful lot though - I love that whole scene. To bits. *g*

Nice piccies, too, btw, ta ever so. I do love seeing the lads littering the place.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

I find it hard to tell one mud-covered bloke from another
Hee - this is very true! I spend most of those sequences trying to work out which one is Doyle! *g* Although I did notice this time that King Billy managed to stay un-muddy for rather a long time, when the others were caked in the stuff (very true to life, that, too... *g*)

I quite like filling in the backstory in this one - it gives us so much scope for fic! - but I agree that the plot/backstory is a bit hole-y to follow as is...

Hmmn - does Doyle get flappy? You mean at the end where he meets Cowley and suddenly decides that he has to find Bodie after all? I dunno - I think I have my own backstory for that in my head, so it doesn't seem odd to me. There's been a rift of some sort between our lads, so whilst they're trying to act as normal at work, it's doing wrong. Doyle manages it by trying to be cool about whatever's going on (not Fonzie-cool, unaffected cool), but because he actually is really affected by it, he doesn't realise that Bodie's acting oddly in reaction to an outside event rather than because of what happened between them. It's not until he sees Cowley that he puts two and two together and realises that Bodie's not just taking out his aggro on a bunch of bikers he doesn't like, but that there's more to it than that - and then he heads straight to the rescue, and afterwards, he takes Bodie home and washes all that mud off him, and they... well, but enough of my imaginings. *g*

Oh, the bow tie scene... *happy sigh*

I do love seeing the lads littering the place
Yes! Yes and yes - they need to be littered around much more! *g*

[snailbones.livejournal.com]

Ah, now, yes, I see... The bit where he takes Bodie home and washes all that nasty sticky mud off him... Yes, yes. It's all completely clear now, thank you *g* I like your version a heck of a lot better than what's on the screen - I need to watch it again with your bits in mind.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Watching it with the lads' bits in mind is always a good idea... *g*

[gvenanne.livejournal.com]

The problem.. or the good thing *g* with Pros is that even when there are episodes that I like less in the end even those have something that I like immensely, will rewatch several times when rewatching and making lots of caps and push pause button to have a short love haze moment. That's why it's kinda impossible for me to say that this or that one I don't like. Wich is I think in fact a very good thing.
I had some, well in fact I would say there was one particular moment that was upsetting for me when I watched the episode for the first time, but the episode as a whole had so much stuff for thinking and imagining things about lads and CI5 and Cowley and lads, Cowley and CI5, like there are dozens of all kind of stories about the lads that could be based on this episode alone. It's like a great Ali Baba's treasure cove for imagining prosy plots and other stuff. And I love the motto they made the motto of SAS here. And in the end I found myself loving this episode, thinking a lot about it and even the upsetting thing after some thinking turned to some strong positive point for me)).

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

That's why it's kinda impossible for me to say that this or that one I don't like.
Yes! I find that too - although I have a bunch that I know I really like, I find it very hard to say that I don't like episodes. There's one or two, mind you - Close Quarters, for instance, cos the lads aren't together at all - but mostly there's something somewhere in an ep to like... *g*

It's like a great Ali Baba's treasure cove for imagining prosy plots and other stuff.
What a brilliant way to describe it! Yes! That's just what I like about it! *g*

Do you mind me asking which moment it was that you found upsetting at first, in Wild Justice? I'm just curious... *g*

[gvenanne.livejournal.com]

Well, let's have a look at it but remember! *g* It were the very first weeks of my acquaintance with Pros when I was literally devouring them. There was a lot of love and emotion and thinking but the latter was rather jumbled than thorough).
So the upsetting moment was not about what Bodie was doing but Doyle's reaction to it. Noting his partner's state he actually did nothing (it was all Cowley trying to figure out what was going on, mind I don't mind that because I love Cowley being mother hen over his agents) what nonetheless I accepted and understood because 1) it is that bit that I think could be attractive in Doyle for Bodie that Doyle didn't press as much as he could in personal matters and 2) it is in fact only natural in irritation to act even towards a close friend in the way oh I'm done with your stupid behaviour! you may as well go to hell! Kinda absolutely normal. Although I feel at once like objecting here because Bodie is not only a friend but partner, when on duty your own life depends on him so I was sort of... discontented with Doyle's behaviour here. And then in the end it were words It'll be the end of CI5 if he does that made him act not some er... personal reminder. So I was quite upset by this part. Back then.) But time passed, there was a lot of... say creative thinking from my part *g* about Pros and this episode in particular. And I got this picture.. this idea in my mind (let's call it fanon so not to sound all-or-nothing :) ) that it is the way of life, isn't it, that people basically get connected not by feelings but by circumstances. And circumstances can bring them apart no matter love and attraction and whatever. And we know that CI5 is what brought Bodie and Doyle together so the end of CI5 is.. well can be the end of Bodie and Doyle. And suddenly these words showed a very different perspective and well.. here you also can see how this episode works in its Ali Baba Treasure Cove way *g*

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes! I remember being cross about that for ages too - exactly that! Yes, why wasn't Doyle doing what Bodie did in the eps - follow his mate around and help him sort things out... But then I realised that there could be so many more interesting possibilities... *g* Creative thinking is fun, isn't it... *vbg*

[murphybabe]

Well, it's not a favourite episode of mine but I like the bits you have selected here, so thank you for pulling those out!

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome! *g*

[ali15son.livejournal.com]

sorry for the lateness in replying to this ...i love this episode for lots of the reasons you mention but also i see this as a big Bodie episode which appeals to me alot . There are lots and lots of Bodie moments to enjoy..the look he gives to the bikers as they enter the pub when he is stood outside ...the anger towards the end ...oh yes for a massive Bodie fan there are lots of great moments in this episode and that's me a massive Bodie fan xx

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

No worries - reply as late as you like, any time! And yeah, I think of WJ as a "Bodie" episode too, and there are lots of Bodie moments to enjoy. But somehow I really like the way that Doyle reacts to it all too - it just makes me think that there's so much more going on between them... *vbg*

[owned-by-a-cat.livejournal.com]

OMG - what? This is my all-time favourite episode of all. Even though I've only seen it twice in English and only a handful of times in German.
Prompted my first pros-y fic that one did... really need to get that box set I keep promising myself and watch it again.
Thanks for reminding me.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

It is? Oh yeay!

And ooh - which fic was that then? Do you have a link? *vbg*

[owned-by-a-cat.livejournal.com]

That one predates computers! (should I be admitting to that?)
Writing it kept me sane during a winter in Moscow when the only music around was the one I'd lugged with me. (yay for mp3 players, best things since sliced bread!) and I had to make my own entertainment. Strangely enough, I never missed not having TV. But if I remember rightly, Cowley ended up with a very sassy adoptive daughter. With the lads as pseudo big brothers, of course.
Wishful thinking clearly, after having worked on an oil rig with 52 guys....
Have to dig this out one of these days and cringe while reading it again.

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

Oh, fun! I came across a fic like that a while ago - before I even know there was such a thing as fanfic, I'd written a wee Pros fic. And used it for a school assignment. *g* Luckily I hadn't worked out slash yet, I don't think tiny-town-bush-Australia could have coped with that!

I like the idea of you writing away in the depths of a Moscow winter though - how very romantic!

[freetraveller15.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I'm still not warming up to WJ even after repeated viewings. I read that the story this ep was based on (by Ranald Graham?) was not originally written for Pros and it was only later 'adapted' to the Pros series, perhaps also through some rushed or poorly executed editing, which may explain some of the issues I have with this ep.
For example:
- the story (the psychological basis especially) is too complex to be told satisfyingly in 50 minutes
- the viewer IMO has to wait far too long to get an explanation for Bodie's 'disturbed' behaviour/unpredictability in the tests results etc.
- Bodie keeping from Doyle the reason for his behaviour
- inconsistency btw Doyle saying he doesn't care about Bodie doing that race and, in fact, coming to his rescue at the end
- despite the clumsy editing and plot holes (IMO) some of the motorcycling sequences drag on for far too long; almost makes me feel like a cameraman has accidentally let the camera roll too long. A feeling reinforced by absence of music effect/soundtrack besides the engine noise of the bikes. Perhaps it was intentional, maybe to suggest Bodie's 'deranged' mind in trying to hang onto a dangerous exercise all by himself. Dunno. But it didn't work for me.
- I have mixed feelings about Dr Ross. She sounds competent but I can't help but squirming at the arrogance and superiority of her tone. Perhaps it's just the actress. Mind you, I have nothing against strong, self-confident female characters in Pros. Or in general female characters that are well written and well played. I love Sally, Susan (agent in Purging of CI5), Susan Grant, Ruth, Frances Cottingham, Layla etc. But something in Ross just doesn't gel with me.
- the scene with Shusai had the potential of being enlightening for the viewer, adding an extra dimension in showing the variety and complexity of the lads' training etc but I think it was poorly written, leaving the viewer more baffled than enlightened. Perhaps it would have worked better had the scene appeared later in the ep, after it became clearer what was causing Bodie's behaviour.

Having said all that (and, as you can see, my issues are mostly with the writing, the editing and some inconsistencies in the lads' behaviour) there are things I like about WJ. The lads look great. I loved the first few scenes of them in training and going through the mental tests. Of course, the physical closeness, the touching, Doyle's wearing Bodie's tux etc. are all great moments. But unfortunately they're not enough to make me place this ep among my favourites.
I now tend to watch standalone scenes, but not as a whole, as I don't expect the overall plot to make any sense.

I know what you mean about different ways of liking a Pros episode and the fact that, for reasons we know to do with how a fast-paced TV series was produced at the time, esp. with multiple writers joining after season 2, each with their own 'take' on the characters, hardly a Pros episode is 'perfect' but contains some minor (or major) flaw, inconsistency, lack of continuity, poorly edited scenes, unnecessary scenes or lines that should have been cut out (the "Arab girl" dead in a bathtub in I don't remember which episode, a plotline leading nowhere; the woman picked up by Doyle posing as van Niekirk who asks him "How will you do it?" implying she knows he's supposed to be a hired killer, etc), and scenes edited too much where important bits have been cut out... But despite these flaws, I can still rank certain 'flawed' episodes among my favourites, whether for the interesting and well-constructed plot, or for interesting minor characters, or many other reasons. However, WJ is not one of them. The whole premise feels "off" to me and despite some ndividual good scenes, they don't add up to a consistent whole to me.

(tbc)

[freetraveller15.livejournal.com]

(cont'd)

Unfortunately LJ ate the 2nd part of my comment. I was trying to say that even the final stand-off between Cowley and Bodie felt "off" to me. Out of character from Cowley, at least.
I read (perhaps in the same article that said the writer had not written WJ for Pros initially) that the final standoff was what the writer intended all along to include at the end of the episode, and something like he would have done anything to 'force' that scene into the plot, no matter how out-of-character it would seem. I personally just felt it was not a satisfying ending, but I know for many other fans it feels like a necessary 'step' towards Bodie regaining the 'status quo' after his temporary 'derangement'.

Cheers
Paola

[byslantedlight.livejournal.com]

was not originally written for Pros and it was only later 'adapted' to the Pros series
Oh, now I've not heard that about WJ, although I know that was what happened with The Gun. I'd be interested to read that article.

I don't have a problem with the ending or Cowley's actions - I can see him shooting Bodie if he really needed to, and he's never had a problem killing anyone else he thought shouldn't be doing what they were doing. On the one hand I think he'd shoot to wound, rather than kill (cos CI5 agents are expensive *g*), but I don't think he'd've let Bodie kill King Billy rather than bring him to trial - I don't think he'd want to see Bodie in jail, for a start, and with all those witnesses he'd have no choice but to let justice be carried out. What was it you found unsatisfying about that scene, and out of character for Cowley? You don't think he'd make that threat to Bodie, and insist on legal justice over "wild justice"?

hardly a Pros episode is 'perfect' but contains some minor (or major) flaw, inconsistency, lack of continuity, poorly edited scenes, unnecessary scenes or lines that should have been cut out
Interesting! I agree that the eps were far from perfect but to be honest that's something I like about them, and something that I suspect has made it more possible for nearly 40 years of Prosfic *g* I suspect we all see different inconsistencies/have different questions for the various eps too. I can't remember finding the dead Arab girl in the bathtub a problem, for example (well, apart from any dead person in a bathtub not being something you want in reality, obviously... *g*) - but then that's something else that I bet's contributed to all the fanfic out there! *g*

I suppose the other thing is that I don't look for a "consistent whole" in any Pros ep - there's usually something that I realise I've just accepted on the assumption that there's an explanation for it, and usually my brain has made one up when I think about it more firmly, which is one of the reasons I like Pros. In fact I tend to get bored with series that are too well-explained, so that nothing's left to the viewer's imagination, so I guess that's one reason Pros is perfect for me! *g*

Thanks for all your thoughts - I'm always fascinated by the different ways that we (Pros fen in general!) see the eps... *g*

[freetraveller15.livejournal.com]

Hello. Thank you so much for your reply.
I know from my wording I might have given you the impression I value consistency above everything else in a Pros episode, but it's not really what I meant. I do value it, yes, especially because in a TV series I value character-driven stories (even in a fast action series) and character consistency is important to me, but I don't see minor flaws like the ones I described in the 1st part of my comment as too serious and they don't normally ruin my enjoyment of a programme. Of course I love the fact that Pros fanfic thrives on these plot holes and other 'flaws' which offer the perfect opportunity for a writer to fill in gaps, present a particular interpretation etc. but well-written fanfic can be enjoyable even when written for TV series that *do* have more consistency and fewer 'flaws' than Pros. In other words, canon being 'flawed' is not a necessary condition for its fanfic to be successful IMO. It all depends on the quality of the writing, in my view.
But anyway because I love (screen)writing and admire the work of a screenwriter very much (I have a background in film studies and I've worked for years in movie and TV series translation and subtitling), I tend to 'demand' from a beloved TV series that at least some episodes make sense and get a bit disappointed not so much when there are some minor plot holes or similar minor flaws, but when major issues come up which make me sit up and notice, or make me uncomfortable with my previous assumptions about a character or situation. Though of course I accept that part of life is people often behaving erratically or inconsistently, and so presumably fictional characters should too. You mentioned Cowley. I tend to like the character, even at his most abrasive and no-nonsense. I like the fact that he clearly respects and (perhaps *g*) grows fond of the lads over time, but doesn't coddle them or give them easy ways out, in fact puts them in extremely dangerous situations knowing/hoping they'll be competent and smart enough to find a way out. However, his behaviour in Operation Susie (giving away the lads' location), in Need to Know (shooting Manton to kill him when he could have just stopped him from fleeing by shooting him in the legs - plus Manton was unarmed and posed no threat), even in Blind Run (not disclosing to the lads the real purpose of their mission) leave me baffled, to say the least. Make me think Cowley thinks of himself as God and uses his top agents as if they were expendable, in a way, when he of all people should defend and protect them (as he did in The Rack, in a way, though his main intention was to defend CI5 as an organization), at least because they're expensive to replace (!).
In WJ I was so gobsmacked that he'd point a gun to Bodie's head I didn't even stop to wonder whether he'd have shot him, or if he did, whether to wound or kill Bodie. I agree with you, having thought it over, that he would not have wanted B. in jail and would have maybe shot to wound him if it came to that. But the whole finale seemed too "staged" and "theatrical", in a way. I had already some trouble believing that Bodie would behave that way during the course of the episode, plus didn't like how he treated Doyle during some of it, that I'd already exhausted my patience, and seeing Cowley threaten his top operative with a gun to his head at the end was really the last straw. So it's probably not so much Cowley appearing out-of-character, but the escalation of realism-stretching within the episode making me feel I had no more patience to follow and believe in the plot.
I admire the experimentation with style or plotlines in certain Pros episodes, even when they take the viewer out of their comfort zone, but in practice, psychological episodes like WJ cannot be IMO satisfyingly handled in just 50 minutes. In a more modern TV series this storyline would have probably been stretched over two episodes, but Pros had a stricter format and no overarching storylines were allowed, each episode having to be self-contained.



(tbc)

[freetraveller15.livejournal.com]

(cont'd)

This post (where you also commented) http://the-safehouse.livejournal.com/773094.html was quite adamant about WJ not follow 'canon' characterisation. I don't share all of the poster's views but I agree with some of them. I also agree with the poster's dislike of Operation Susie.


Here:
http://www.mark-1.co.uk/Professionals/d02.htm
The sidenotes say that WJ had originally been "written as a special short story for TV Times magazine in 1978 and never intended as an episode proper. However in March 1980 LWT reversed their (albeit unofficial) decision to axe the series, giving Mark 1 just eight weeks notice in which to get scripts written! As such Ranald Graham did an impressive job adapting the story for television!"

This original story was also published in the book included with the new DVDs (season 2/Mark II), though I left it at my mum's house so don't have it to hand. I remember reading it and thinking it was an interesting story (not particularly well-written, though IMO) but, as I said, if the production company insisted in basing a Pros episode on it they could have done a better job. But it seemed the clock was working against them and this was probably the best they could do.
So no, sorry, it wasn't written for a different TV series, like The Gun, but as a 'special' for the TV Times mag. Anyway, it didn't start as a Pros episode.

PS the Arab girl scene doesn't seem to have any purpose in the context of that episode. I'm not bothered by it, but it just seemed the script editor wasn't doing his job *g*. A fast-paced action series like Pros can't afford to waste film (!) and each scene should have some purpose (big or small), advance the plot, shed light on what's going on, develop characterisation. That short scene seemed to me a leftover loose end which probably had, in an earlier script draft, some meaning which got lost with later rewrites.

[solosundance.livejournal.com]

Late to party, but hopefully there's some beer and nibbles left :)

WJ's an ep I took a bit of time to warm up to, but having considered the possible backstory from all angles (heh) and used it as fic fodder myself, it's grown on me! Some of the aspects of it that some don't care for (Bodie walloping Doyle in the woods, Bodie not telling Doyle what's going on etc) don't worry me too much. This may possibly be because when I watch it now I do so in the context of my own version - gawd, isn't fanfic great...

I always liked the premise (burnout/trauma and the effect it might have) and enjoyed the psychobabble aspects particularly (love the computer test banter!), but was never very keen on the bikes going round in circles and up and down part (well, except for mud and leather which has very many narrative possibilities), or the weird disconnect (as I saw it) between the lads (I always wanted Doyle to show worry more than irritation, but now I read his irritation as worry!). And I do cringe at the Bodie punching car scene - and Evil!Bodie making that weird face. It always feels like LC might have practiced it over and over again but never quite got it right :D

So, yes. Still feel the same about the bike scenes, but I enjoy the rest quite a lot! Love the shots you've chosen as well - the Cowley and Doyle scene in the flat is quite delicious - Doyle is Cowley's man, not just to put in danger, body and soul, but to look after as well - yes, absolutely this!

Ooh and I do love the icon of Doyle from the ep that you've used, it's one of my favourites of yours!