Think-y things about zines and fic and all
Thursday, 26 February 2009 10:12 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
byslantedlightWandering around lj as you do, I came across some interesting discussions/thoughts about zines and fic and different types of access to such things, and I'm all curious now about what Pros-y people think about them, so... I thought I'd post here! Plus, coffee-break! Plus, I'm in a very think-y Pros-y mood this week, what with all the brilliant discussions etc going on at the moment. So here's another one! *g*
There's a poll here, which asks an interesting question: If I was to take all my fanfic off the internet, and offer it in downloadable e-zine form instead, available for $20 (US$ I presume, so about £14 at today's exchange rate) - would you buy it?. It's not specific to the poll-er, it's a hypothetical question - if people did that, would other people spend money on it?
There actually are sites offering downloadable Prosfic zines, which is all fab and good because I love the Oblique zines that are available online to print if I want, and I like having the Dialj Bound zines on my shelves ready to pull off and read while curled up in bed (little bairns that they are... *g*), but other people are charging money for downloadable zines (you have to click on "The Professionals" in the sidebar to see the Pros zines in question - some are downloadable, some aren't), which strikes me as a little different to selling/"distributing" paper zines, because there's presumably no overhead to letting people download a zine - at least no more than anyone else in Pros/fandom pays for their internet connections... *g* So where does that US$8.00 go? What are people actually paying that distributor for doing? Cos isn't the whole point that distributors of fandom don't actually make any profit from it, cos that would be illegal? Do the authors see any of that money? Artists? Wouldn't that be illegal too? Isn't it going against the whole spirit of fandom for distributors/publishers/authors etc to do that?
I can go with the idea that paper zine publishers are paying for printing etc costs (although... well, never mind that now, it's a whole other controversial discussion!) and that it would cost someone to print out a zine, and besides it's fab to have the cover and the art and the binding, and that's what the publisher has done for us - put it all together (presumably they don't get paid for this bit, that's fannish love like the rest of us) and had it printed and bound (the bit that they have to pay a professional printer for and thus are charging us for). But putting a fic/zine up online, which alot of people do for free - why are they charging for that? And in the case that I've linked to above, I don't believe that you can print off the e-zine even if you do pay for it, because they're security protected only to be available on screen. So..?
I dunno - what do other people think of this? Is there a difference between distributing things via paper publication and via e-fic publication? How are the authors affected by this (are any of you reading this? *g*)? I know there's at least one zine being sold at that website that I've hoped might "time out" and come online one day, because I really can't afford full-priced zines very often, but if it's now available for download, then will that ever happen? Did the authors give permission for their zines to be sold as downloads? What's going on..?
Obviously this must be happening in a much broader context in other fandoms, people charging money for downloadable fic, or else the poll presumably wouldn't have arisen, but... is this really the next trend? Just a glitch? Do people think it's okay?
And I know this is all a bit meta, so I'm pressing Post with due trepidation since I'm not locking this yet, but... I am curious about what people think in general...
There's a poll here, which asks an interesting question: If I was to take all my fanfic off the internet, and offer it in downloadable e-zine form instead, available for $20 (US$ I presume, so about £14 at today's exchange rate) - would you buy it?. It's not specific to the poll-er, it's a hypothetical question - if people did that, would other people spend money on it?
There actually are sites offering downloadable Prosfic zines, which is all fab and good because I love the Oblique zines that are available online to print if I want, and I like having the Dialj Bound zines on my shelves ready to pull off and read while curled up in bed (little bairns that they are... *g*), but other people are charging money for downloadable zines (you have to click on "The Professionals" in the sidebar to see the Pros zines in question - some are downloadable, some aren't), which strikes me as a little different to selling/"distributing" paper zines, because there's presumably no overhead to letting people download a zine - at least no more than anyone else in Pros/fandom pays for their internet connections... *g* So where does that US$8.00 go? What are people actually paying that distributor for doing? Cos isn't the whole point that distributors of fandom don't actually make any profit from it, cos that would be illegal? Do the authors see any of that money? Artists? Wouldn't that be illegal too? Isn't it going against the whole spirit of fandom for distributors/publishers/authors etc to do that?
I can go with the idea that paper zine publishers are paying for printing etc costs (although... well, never mind that now, it's a whole other controversial discussion!) and that it would cost someone to print out a zine, and besides it's fab to have the cover and the art and the binding, and that's what the publisher has done for us - put it all together (presumably they don't get paid for this bit, that's fannish love like the rest of us) and had it printed and bound (the bit that they have to pay a professional printer for and thus are charging us for). But putting a fic/zine up online, which alot of people do for free - why are they charging for that? And in the case that I've linked to above, I don't believe that you can print off the e-zine even if you do pay for it, because they're security protected only to be available on screen. So..?
I dunno - what do other people think of this? Is there a difference between distributing things via paper publication and via e-fic publication? How are the authors affected by this (are any of you reading this? *g*)? I know there's at least one zine being sold at that website that I've hoped might "time out" and come online one day, because I really can't afford full-priced zines very often, but if it's now available for download, then will that ever happen? Did the authors give permission for their zines to be sold as downloads? What's going on..?
Obviously this must be happening in a much broader context in other fandoms, people charging money for downloadable fic, or else the poll presumably wouldn't have arisen, but... is this really the next trend? Just a glitch? Do people think it's okay?
And I know this is all a bit meta, so I'm pressing Post with due trepidation since I'm not locking this yet, but... I am curious about what people think in general...
no subject
Date: Friday, 27 February 2009 11:58 am (UTC)I think the answer to that would be because if it weren't for the paper zine buyers, there probably wouldn't be a zine to buy. Most zine publishers I know are older and publish zines because of their love for paperzines. Offering it in CD or downloadable form has usually been done as a favor to those fans unable to afford print zines. From talks I've heard it's a hassle, a hassle that many publishers are still unwilling to put up with. And most don't charge much more than is charged for the Proslib CD.
It does strike me as bizarre though that authors would give permission for someone to profit from their non-profit-allowed work, so I'd really like to see some sort of breakdown of why it's not a profit...
There was a panel about that at the last K/S con and all the publishers (there were about half dozen of them,) laughed at the idea that they made a profit. One I know has said that for tax purposes, she better not make a profit. I'm inclined to believe it. One had kept her zines at $20 until only very recently upping the price to $25 (the price includes shipping.) So, at least in K/S, I'm very comfortable sending stories to zine publishers.
no subject
Date: Friday, 27 February 2009 12:50 pm (UTC)With a cd too, I think people are still getting something solid in exchange for their money, and whether or not I agree with the prices etc, that seems to me to be a reciprocal exchange. It's the downloadable thing I can't get my head around in exchange for money, because it's so ephemeral - especially if you're not supposed to be able to print them off (I appreciate that if you're tech-y enough that can be broken, or if you're lucky enough to have friends or whatever, but not everyone can do that!)
And you know that I adore zines, and do buy them (as long as I think they're worth the money being charged) - and I do know all the arguments etc about how expensive they are to create, and that publishers are all only just breaking even. I expect like anything else, that some publishers are breaking more even than others, but... *g*
Hmmn - e-zines to subsidise print zines... I dunno, that doesn't seem fair to me, especially if e-zines are being produced in the first place to make material available that some people can't afford to buy in print version... In that case they're still charging people who can't afford to pay much, for something that could subsidises the very thing that they can't afford to pay for in the first place... (leaving aside the people who prefer online versions)
I dunno - I have my own opinions of course, but it's interesting hearing other people's opinions and whether they mind this or that, and how they see it all... cheers! *g*
no subject
Date: Friday, 27 February 2009 01:04 pm (UTC)Talking specifically about e-zines, the two I know of that aren't tied to a print zine (one in K/S, one in UNCLE,) are both free. I'm inclined to think the only way a fandom can have free e-zines is to also have a fan who is willing to take the time to set them up. :-)
no subject
Date: Monday, 2 March 2009 09:18 pm (UTC)I'm inclined to think the only way a fandom can have free e-zines is to also have a fan who is willing to take the time to set them up
Well, there is that - but then publishers could do that as well as they could make paper-zines-not-for-profit, surely... (And may I point just a little bit to the Dialj Bounds... I know they're not fancy, but I'm very fond of my printed version of the first Christmas one - and it cost under £10 to print, even though I only did about a dozen at once... *g*)
no subject
Date: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 05:53 pm (UTC)But that goes back to what they want to do. I imagine if publishers really wanted to go that route they already would have, like Oblique. What I've got from the publishers I've talked to is that publishing zines truly is a labor or love...and they don't necessarily love e-zines.
And may I point just a little bit to the Dialj Bounds... I know they're not fancy, but I'm very fond of my printed version of the first Christmas one - and it cost under £10 to print, even though I only did about a dozen at once... *g*
And that may answer your question. While I have the Christmas issue in a computer file I've never printed it out, yet I bought paper copies of the three Dialj zines that I knew had been made available that way. So, while I'll buy the zine if someone else does it, I won't print it out on my own. Too much wear and tear on my printer, not to say how much ink I'd be using. If I have to print them out, for me there's not much difference between an e-zine and stories being posted to an archive.