Think-y things about zines and fic and all
Thursday, 26 February 2009 10:12 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
byslantedlightWandering around lj as you do, I came across some interesting discussions/thoughts about zines and fic and different types of access to such things, and I'm all curious now about what Pros-y people think about them, so... I thought I'd post here! Plus, coffee-break! Plus, I'm in a very think-y Pros-y mood this week, what with all the brilliant discussions etc going on at the moment. So here's another one! *g*
There's a poll here, which asks an interesting question: If I was to take all my fanfic off the internet, and offer it in downloadable e-zine form instead, available for $20 (US$ I presume, so about £14 at today's exchange rate) - would you buy it?. It's not specific to the poll-er, it's a hypothetical question - if people did that, would other people spend money on it?
There actually are sites offering downloadable Prosfic zines, which is all fab and good because I love the Oblique zines that are available online to print if I want, and I like having the Dialj Bound zines on my shelves ready to pull off and read while curled up in bed (little bairns that they are... *g*), but other people are charging money for downloadable zines (you have to click on "The Professionals" in the sidebar to see the Pros zines in question - some are downloadable, some aren't), which strikes me as a little different to selling/"distributing" paper zines, because there's presumably no overhead to letting people download a zine - at least no more than anyone else in Pros/fandom pays for their internet connections... *g* So where does that US$8.00 go? What are people actually paying that distributor for doing? Cos isn't the whole point that distributors of fandom don't actually make any profit from it, cos that would be illegal? Do the authors see any of that money? Artists? Wouldn't that be illegal too? Isn't it going against the whole spirit of fandom for distributors/publishers/authors etc to do that?
I can go with the idea that paper zine publishers are paying for printing etc costs (although... well, never mind that now, it's a whole other controversial discussion!) and that it would cost someone to print out a zine, and besides it's fab to have the cover and the art and the binding, and that's what the publisher has done for us - put it all together (presumably they don't get paid for this bit, that's fannish love like the rest of us) and had it printed and bound (the bit that they have to pay a professional printer for and thus are charging us for). But putting a fic/zine up online, which alot of people do for free - why are they charging for that? And in the case that I've linked to above, I don't believe that you can print off the e-zine even if you do pay for it, because they're security protected only to be available on screen. So..?
I dunno - what do other people think of this? Is there a difference between distributing things via paper publication and via e-fic publication? How are the authors affected by this (are any of you reading this? *g*)? I know there's at least one zine being sold at that website that I've hoped might "time out" and come online one day, because I really can't afford full-priced zines very often, but if it's now available for download, then will that ever happen? Did the authors give permission for their zines to be sold as downloads? What's going on..?
Obviously this must be happening in a much broader context in other fandoms, people charging money for downloadable fic, or else the poll presumably wouldn't have arisen, but... is this really the next trend? Just a glitch? Do people think it's okay?
And I know this is all a bit meta, so I'm pressing Post with due trepidation since I'm not locking this yet, but... I am curious about what people think in general...
There's a poll here, which asks an interesting question: If I was to take all my fanfic off the internet, and offer it in downloadable e-zine form instead, available for $20 (US$ I presume, so about £14 at today's exchange rate) - would you buy it?. It's not specific to the poll-er, it's a hypothetical question - if people did that, would other people spend money on it?
There actually are sites offering downloadable Prosfic zines, which is all fab and good because I love the Oblique zines that are available online to print if I want, and I like having the Dialj Bound zines on my shelves ready to pull off and read while curled up in bed (little bairns that they are... *g*), but other people are charging money for downloadable zines (you have to click on "The Professionals" in the sidebar to see the Pros zines in question - some are downloadable, some aren't), which strikes me as a little different to selling/"distributing" paper zines, because there's presumably no overhead to letting people download a zine - at least no more than anyone else in Pros/fandom pays for their internet connections... *g* So where does that US$8.00 go? What are people actually paying that distributor for doing? Cos isn't the whole point that distributors of fandom don't actually make any profit from it, cos that would be illegal? Do the authors see any of that money? Artists? Wouldn't that be illegal too? Isn't it going against the whole spirit of fandom for distributors/publishers/authors etc to do that?
I can go with the idea that paper zine publishers are paying for printing etc costs (although... well, never mind that now, it's a whole other controversial discussion!) and that it would cost someone to print out a zine, and besides it's fab to have the cover and the art and the binding, and that's what the publisher has done for us - put it all together (presumably they don't get paid for this bit, that's fannish love like the rest of us) and had it printed and bound (the bit that they have to pay a professional printer for and thus are charging us for). But putting a fic/zine up online, which alot of people do for free - why are they charging for that? And in the case that I've linked to above, I don't believe that you can print off the e-zine even if you do pay for it, because they're security protected only to be available on screen. So..?
I dunno - what do other people think of this? Is there a difference between distributing things via paper publication and via e-fic publication? How are the authors affected by this (are any of you reading this? *g*)? I know there's at least one zine being sold at that website that I've hoped might "time out" and come online one day, because I really can't afford full-priced zines very often, but if it's now available for download, then will that ever happen? Did the authors give permission for their zines to be sold as downloads? What's going on..?
Obviously this must be happening in a much broader context in other fandoms, people charging money for downloadable fic, or else the poll presumably wouldn't have arisen, but... is this really the next trend? Just a glitch? Do people think it's okay?
And I know this is all a bit meta, so I'm pressing Post with due trepidation since I'm not locking this yet, but... I am curious about what people think in general...
no subject
Date: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 02:08 pm (UTC)As I said before, if money is gonna be involved, it should go to the authors.
About those of us who live far away from Fannish Central? More than a matter of "rich", IMHO, is a matter of access.
Exchange is hard, taxes are quite terrifing, mail cost are not cheap, so even when zines are on sale for fellows fans for almost no money, when you add everything, it's still expensive, and a lot of troubles.
Fannish work is just... fannish. I appreciate it, and enjoy it, but is also, be definition, free for all. When someone is making profit of it, it stop being fannish and become comercial.
If I edit a fan-zine, and I'm charging for it more than it's neccessary to cover my cost, then, I should be paying to the autors, and I should be paying taxes, and stuff.
Again, this is just my opinion.
no subject
Date: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 02:22 pm (UTC)To me, we're all in fandom because we love our shows, our characters - it's a hobby. I love that in general fandom is all about sharing things freely - a proper gift economy, and I hate the thought that some people try to take advantage of that!
Out of curiosity, which part of South America do you live in? And I think you're a Pros fan, right? How did you come across Bodie and Doyle, if you don't mind me asking? *g*
no subject
Date: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 02:41 pm (UTC)So, yes, I totally agree about feeling bad about someone taking advantage of this spirit.
I live in Argentina, in Patagonia, as a matter of fact. And yes, I'm a Pros fan. I come across them on TV, and you need to understand: back then, you didn't choose what to see, but what NOT to see. We had only one channel, and Pros come as substitute when Starsky & Hutch ended. I watched the first episode and, I must say, I wasn't overwhelmed. But I like buddy shows, and so, I decide to gave it a chance. And, thanks God I did that. I loved it, and I still love with the lads and the show itself.
I had been trying to track down, exactly when it was broadcasted, and I can't, for the life of me, found a reliable date. Atgh! I wish I had a better memory!!! *headdesk*
no subject
Date: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 02:51 pm (UTC)back then, you didn't choose what to see, but what NOT to see. We had only one channel, and Pros come as substitute when Starsky & Hutch ended.
Oh I remember that! I grew up in Australia, and where I lived we had the same issue - although we had two channels, and one of them showed Pros... *g*
You know, I just found out something - apparently there was an ITV strike in the UK when the last seasons of Pros came out, and so in Australia we actually saw some eps, like DiaG before people did in England! I was so pleased to find out about this, because I remembered vividly when I was watching it, but it didn't match up with the UK transmission schedules at all! I wonder if perhaps you might have done too? Depending on when it was broadcast in Argentina in the first place, I guess... *g*
no subject
Date: Wednesday, 4 March 2009 11:58 am (UTC)Patagonia - that sounds so romantic to me!
Patagonia is... an aquire taste *laughs* It is beautiful, but ot os also really wild. We are far, far away from everything, which, of course has its advantages, but also its downs.
Oh I remember that! I grew up in Australia, and where I lived we had the same issue - although we had two channels, and one of them showed Pros... *g*
When I was a child, I lived at Tierra del Fuego (that little island at the End of South America!) and we didn't have TV at all. Not that I missed, because, seriously, I was a kid with snow, ice, lakes, and woods to play around. And lots of animals. Who needed TV?
Then, when I was 10, we moved to Chubut. Still Patagonia, but continental :)
Here we had only a cable company, and we got TV from... I don't know... 5 pm to 12 pm? 6 to 12? Not free TV at all.
So, we, the kids, didn't warch a big lot of TV, either.
Now, in the Cable and Satelital TV, things are different, but we didn't have TV color till 1976!!! And Cable companies as providers of hundreds of options only showed their faces up at the end of 80s, beginning of 90s...
We are really out of the world, hehehe
You know, I just found out something - apparently there was an ITV strike in the UK when the last seasons of Pros came ou...I wonder if perhaps you might have done too?
I don't think so... In those times we always were 2/3 years behind the original broadcasting, so...
I'm just happy we got to see the show as a whole, and in its proper order. There were shows we only got 1 season, there were others we saw random episodes, without order... Pros was one of the few we manage to enjoy as it was intended *laughs*
no subject
Date: Wednesday, 4 March 2009 01:07 pm (UTC)So glad you got to see Pros though - and nice to meet you! *g*
no subject
Date: Wednesday, 4 March 2009 01:47 pm (UTC)And nice to meet you, too *g*